Tuesday March 24, 2015

Rudramadevi (Music review), Telugu – Ilayaraja

Posted by Karthik

Mathagajame has the grandeur befitting a historical’s intro song, but eventually turns into a melange. Chusukovoy‘s rhythm and tune is perfect for… 1985. Now, it sounds bizarre. Ditto with Allakallolamai – angsty, outdated dance sound. The soundtrack’s real winners are the 3 melodies. Auna neevena is delightfully sweet, with fantastic orchestration that is so very Raja, while Punnami puvai ups the ante with an even more dulcet tune and fantastic singing by Shreya! Anthapuramlo too has a pleasant lilt and the harmonious mix of Chitra, Sadhana Sargam and Chinmayi’s vocals makes a big difference. Usual Raja stock, with 3 highlights.

Keywords: Rudramadevi, Ilayaraja

Comments

comments

  • hikicha

    Almost agree with the review – except Allakolamai was interesting to me .

    The album is worth just for Punnami Poovai and its first interlude & Charanam – what bliss !!!

    – MumbaiRamki

  • naveennaidu narisetty

    I am enjoying the album. Allakolamai is a great listen for me. Parts of Mathagajame are exceptional. Chitras raunchy vocals, the arrangements and funny lyrics made Chusukovoy interesting despite the initial stale feel. Auna Neevena, Antahpuramlo and Punnami puvvai are simply classic.

  • philosophercricketer

    The sounds had to be rustic since the content of the film is historical and the settings medieval. However Raja has employed western instruments like violin, key board etc in the 3 melody songs, so much so that a puritan might be less appreciative of the overall presentation on the screen. But the film caters to the masses and hence the sounds are current, I believe. This being a period film, was wondering if Raja had researched and tried to decorate lyrical content at least from poets contemporary to Rudramadevi’s times. Obvious, he did not.

    Auna neevena and Punnamipuvvai are delightful additions to Illayaraja’s illustrious telugu repertoire.

  • Kathik

    Chusukovoy, I wont say an outdated tune…but is i liked by youngsters today?. Time is the answer. Lets consider if it is not liked. Here I blame the director. Composer here is a living legend for him there is nothing else to be conquered in music. I wonder why maniratnam, KB , Bala , GVM music with Ilayaraja always stands out.

    • milliblog

      This is an on-going line of thought – people have asked in the past too. When Raja uses some of his 80s style melodies, I love it, in 2015. But a song like Chusukovoy, I call it bad, in 2015. The natural follow-up is, would I liked it in 1985.

      I’d say yes, because back in 1985, this *may have* sounded interestingly new. Now, with more sounds for context and more tunes to compare, this may seem both outdated and jaded. So, even if a film is set in the 80s and demands that kind of a song (not about this film, it being a mythological, but in general), we may still see it from the awareness of musical updates over the years.

      • rahul sudarshi

        LOL Mr. Karthik. Hahahaha…i dont know you can call it that way!!!. Ilayaraja cannot be compared with any music composer in the world. ‘Outdated’ is a word used by people who think presentation is music and arent aware what true music is. Bach, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Brahms, Mozart, Ennio Morricone may sound outdated for YOU by your so called modern contexts but that doesnt mean they arent great. It just means you are not up there to comprehend them.People cannot call Einstein outdated. Similarly Ilayarajas music can never be outdatd. What these geniuses deliver are IDEAS. AND IF YOU FEEL THOSE IDEAS OUTDATED OR IF YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND THEM THEN ITS YOUR FAULT NOT THEIRS.Lol what ILAYARAJA HAS DONE IS 80S IS STILL NOT MATCHED BY TODAYS MODERN COMPOSERS ALL PUT TOGETHER. MUSIC DOESNT HAVE ANY TIME LIMITS. A TRUE MUSIC LOVER LISTENS TO 16TH CENTURY BACH AND AT THE NEXT MOMENT CAN LISTEN TO MODERN BEATS OF A NEW AGE SONGMAKER. MUSIC IS NOTHING BUT AN EXPRESSION OF ETHEREAL IDEAS. IDEAS CAN NEVER BE NEW OR OLD. IF YOU ARE VIEWING THEM THAT WAY THEN THAT MEANS YOU ARE NOT MATURE ENOUGH TO TALK ABOUT MUSIC LET ALONE REVIEWING IT Hahahah i dont know what sounds to compare you are talking about?. Basically i think people come to your blog not because you are a great reviewer of music but because they find your blog when they google something else. What are the standards by which you rate an album?? Please elaborate. That which impresses you?? What is it that you look for in a composition? The Raaga? The style? The orchestration? The Harmony?? The melody? The feel? The presentation? The mood? What exactly are your parameters? I think no reviewer in India is capable of reviewing Ilayarajas music for the following reasons:

        1.YOU CAN NEVER COMPREHEND WHAT ILAYARAJAS MUSIC IS ALL ABOUT AS LONG LONG YOU LOOK AT HIS MUSIC JUST LIKE OTHER INDIAN COMPOSERS. HE IS NOT THE INDIAN VARIETY. HE IS BEYOND HOLLYWOOD KIND. A JOHN WILLIAMS , ENNIO MORRICONE KIND. PEOPLE ARENT USED TO LISTENING TO GREAT COMPOSERS OF THE WEST CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ILAYARAJA DOES. HOW CAN YOU REVIEW THEM WHEN YOU CANNOT EVEN UNDERSTAND. HE IS NOT AN ORDINARY SONGMAKER LIKE AR RAHMAN OR HARRIS JAIRAJ OR SHANKAR MAHADEVAN. HE IS THE COMPOSER OF HIGHEST LEVEL. HOW CAN YOU REVIEW HIS MUSIC MAN??? IT SEEMS FUNNY.

        2.ILAYARAJA THE COMPOSER IS AN ANGEL FROM THE HEAVENS WHO COME TO EARTH JUST TO BLESS THE MOTHER EARTH. HE IS THE BUDDHA OR THE CHRIST OF MUSIC. HOW CAN YOU REVIEW HIM? CAN YOU REVIEW BUDDHAS TEACHING??? CAN YOU CALL IT OUTDATED OR FALSE? WHAT ARE YOUR CREDENTIALS FOR THAT? IAM READY AND OPEN FOR ANY DEBATE AND KNOW FOR SURE THAT YOU ARE INELIGIBLE TO TALK ABOUT ILAYARAJAS MUSIC.

        3. I SINCERELY INVITE YOU TO ANY DISCUSSION ON MUSIC AND I CAN CONFIDENTLY SAY THAT YOU HAVENT GOT THE ESSENCE OF THE GREATEST COMPOSER ILAYARAJA. HE IS NOT A CHOICE TO BE CHOSEN. HE IS NOT A gully level COMPOSER.

        • Anonymous

          Mr. Sushadri, one needn’t be a scholar of every subject in the universe to share their opinions. The intuitive with which Karthik commented is presumably a result of the present output of Film Music that he’s hearing. IR might be a parallel to Buddha, Christ, etc. under your perception and that’s acceptable but please respect that everyone’s listening sensibilities might not match or suit your liking.

          • Anonymous

            FYI, I’m an ARR fan but don’t understand why you dragged him here, do you feel threatened by him, if you consider him an “ordinary songmaker” then what’s the need of mentioning him in the same equation as “your” “great” IR. The thirst and hunger for IR’s music is much less evident these days, that’s the most obvious comparative observation I can draw between ARR and IR today. There are ARR fans like me who wait for the raja of the yore to deliver something special and yes he has delivered a cracker of an album here but the I think the same behaviour is not witnessed in IR fans who instead do wait for ARRs soundtracks but for the wrong reasons i.e. criticising cum bashing rather than appreciating innovation.

          • rahul sudarshi

            Lo what innovation are you talking about. ARR hasnt done and cannot do for sure atleast 25 percent of the innovation done by IR. First ask ARR to come up with innovation without computers.Ask him to compose music using only live instruments. IR rules hearts and music machines(computers included), where as for others the machines rule them. They cannot even move a bit without computers. A true composer takes only the help of technology rather on depending on them. Thats the case with IR. Anyone who cannot give a single album without relying on computers and sound engineering is a misfit to stand beside Raaja for comparision.

          • Anonymous

            I’m not surprised at your reply and your comment proves my view on a handful of IR fans to be of substantial value. I don’t like to repeat myself but for your benefit I was not comparing IR and ARR but rather comparitively suggesting the mindset of their fans so no need to go on a absurd tangent, please stick to the topic. I sense you found my comment humourous hence you started your reply with “LOL” Now if you can’t take me seriously then I’m afraid I can’t take you seriously either.

          • rahul sudarshi

            Come with any point related to music. Nothing else interests me here.

          • Anonymous

            Well why did you reply if you didn’t find it interesting? I wasn’t talking about music specifically was I? You seem to be an encyclopaedia on IR so my sincere advice is set up a site if you haven’t already where you can share your reasons behind IR being “THE GREATEST”, share some rare pieces that you think all the people in the world will undeniably accept and highly appreciate unanimously rather than flooding the comments section here.

          • rahul sudarshi

            There are scores of such websites on the internet my friend. I have all the rights to put my points here. If you have valid points you are welcome too.

          • Anonymous

            Then let’s discuss this OST shall we? I’m curious behind the use of synth in this project which is advertising itself as an authentic 13century account of a Telugu dynasty and its queen?

          • rahul sudarshi

            Definitely friend. You say what all yo find interesting/ boring in this album first. Then i would put mine. Do it song wise.:)

          • Anonymous

            I’m reffering to Choosukovo in particular

          • rahul sudarshi

            ok put your feelings abut choosukovoy. what all you feel.

          • Anonymous

            Explain the use of the synth and its purpose in this song which is apparently suppose to reflect 13 century

          • rahul sudarshi

            hey i would do it just in a while. iam having my meal.

          • rahul sudarshi

            Yeah thats a good question. I would try to answer with whatever little knowledge i have.
            1. see synth as we all perceive might have been used mostly for modern or fast paced numbers. But the usage of synth to bring an effect related to the song situation(which here is an item song or a dance number) neednt be seen as out of place
            The KEY being that its the feel the instruments generate that is most important than the instruments being used in a composition.
            2.Ilayaraja is very unorthodox in that area. He uses most unexpected instruments at unexpected places and he does that most effectively. He uses guitar in an utterly folkish number. He uses tabla in a fast paced disco song. It has always been his style. And coming specifically to the Choosukovoy number i think its a dance number which people now call an item song. So the usage of synth is not questionable
            3. If you see SRI RAMA RAJYAM movie the background score for the movie was recorded using Hungarian Symphony Orchestra.One might wonder why a symphony orchestra for a movie on Lord Rama. But still finally a common audience would be bothered much about the feel the instrument generates rather than the instrument itself. Well that shows the unorthodox approach which Maestro Ilayaraja takes in most of his works.
            4. Even in the west if you have seen the recent Interstellar which had music by Hans Zimmer , most of the Background score was done using Organs , oboes and piano. Organs are generally played or used in making religious or chruch related music. Atleast that has been its most common usage. But Hans Zimmer used them in the movie which is a Ultra Modern SCI-FI movie. The explanation he gave was that he wanted to bring in the philosophical touch to the score and hence he used Organs. So you see finally the effect and the mood matters rather than the instrument itself.

          • Anonymous

            Thanks for your insight, with reference to your other comments don’t you think other Music Directors use certain sounds i.e. synth and other means of technology to emote a sound which is apt for the nature of a particular song, theme or soundtrack? As you rightly wrote it’s the mood and not the instrument that are considered the life and soul of a score. Let’s say a composer is not versatile but has devoted his career path to electronic music and has excelled in doing so, surely he needs to be depending on technology rather than only taking its help. By depending I mean that he needs to project sounds which cannot be reflected by live instruments that shouldn’t indicate that they are an unworthy composer, should it?

          • rahul sudarshi

            Yes ofcourse they arent unworthy.. But the problem arises when they(or their fans) claim that he is the greatest. People have to accept that one who writes from the mind is much greater than the one who takes the help of technology. Ofcourse IR was the one who started using technology in Film Music in a big way. But his mind or soul was controlling the machines or technology. Whereas in case of others they cant even move a bit without technology. can they? That obviously show they are much much lesser than IR. having said that they have their own place which no one denies. We can love them , appreciate them and praise them but we shouldnt compare them with the ultimate giants like IR. That shows arrogance and lack of knowledge regarding music.

          • Anonymous

            Here I was just talking about music generally but you seem to drag In IR everywhere and again I’m not comparing bodies but rather concepts. Fair enough that you don’t want to budge from your adamancy but hypocrisy in the beginning of your statement is very glaring, it’s alright for you to claim IR is the greatest but when others claim that X,Y,Z is the greatest you pounce on them like a wolf. Your views or as you claim facts reflect high delusion but since your set in stone I don’t think I can discuss anything further with you.

          • rahul sudarshi

            Hmmm thats fine. i gave you the answer i could. Since your question indirectly meant is ARR who takes the help of Technology anything lesser than IR. Thats how any sensible man can interpret if they see our previous discussion. So i gave you the answer i felt that yes one who depends on technology is definitely lesser than one who uses it merely.Hence i brought in IR here. Even iam least interested to discuss on persons actually. Agree with me or not for me IR iS the God of music and no other composer in India can dare compare himself with IR. This is my opinion and also the opinion of all the music directors in the industry. THEY KNOW IT INSIDE BUT THEY DONT SAY IT OUT. NOW THATS DIPLOMACY FOR YOU. THERE ARE MILLIONS OF IR DEVOTEES IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY ITSELF. AT THE SAME TIME THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CRY ON IR AND HIS GIFTED MUSICAL PROWESS. This is what i feel and know from various sources.

          • Anonymous

            For the last time, I try not to engage in futile IR vs ARR discussion and I got the impression that I could have a brief civilised convo with you without involving IR or ARR but I was wrong. Yes I drew a comparison between IR and ARR but that was based on current trends not music and whether you accept or not, you cant deny who has the bigger market ATM out of the two. Please don’t beat the bush, it was pretty evident from the start that you were trying to provoke me into a IR vs ARR debate but since I’m keeping my cool could you find someone who will easily fall into your trap to get rid of your boredom if you want?. FYI ARRs career path is not solely based on electronic music, if I wanted to talk about ARR then trust me I would’ve been more direct. We were discussing technology and synth regardless of a particular music diector, I replied to your other comment mentioning Vangelis who I actually was superficially referring to here and not ARR. I do value your comments, finding logic in some parts and you do write fluently so respect your insights but I can’t continue if your answer to everything is IR. Thanks for your time 🙂

          • rahul sudarshi

            Also i dont know why Mr. Satyajitk agrees with all those who counter me? Mr. Satyajit as i already said i have certain opinions and i believe them to be facts and you dont seem to agree with me. So there ends the matter. I have my reasons to believe what i believe. My life is not yours to feel otherwise. Even thats the case with you. You have your opinions .

          • Anonymous

            Pardon me this reply seems directed to Mr. Satyajitk? I haven’t had time to read your dispute in depth with him but select reply under his comment otherwise he might miss and not read your comment above but you’ve so acknowledged you both have your opinions so you can ignore this rather than comprehending it as a trigger for another conflicting convo.

          • Muralidhar

            Whatever….. I feel that we are in no position to argue or compare or even speak about the legends like IR and ARR. So stop arguing and start enjoying..the music !!!!

          • Dileep S

            Longest discussion

          • balasubramaniam.m.r

            don’t comparing with any music composers/directors.he’s undoubtedly the best there is no second thought the problem is in past yrs any directors can match up with raja sir but nowadays only very talented director can handle with him.forget about songs because explanation takes a long way go,but rerecording/background score of his films tell the truth why he is a genius, legend, maverick ,etc….

          • Anonymous

            I take it you don’t consider “Vangelis” then!

          • Anonymous

            I take it you don’t consider “Vangelis” a composer then!

          • Anonymous

            I don’t think any one needs to ask Arr to come up with music without computers, you have your doubts do you can ask him but to clear your isn’t really a challenge. Listen to Jab Tak Hai Jaan, pure acoustics, purely melody and most important pure music with ample experimentation and apt emotional quota as well. If you can’t identify this as music then you need serious help

          • rahul sudarshi

            Thats what iam explaining. Raaja cannot be a choice. Its not under my perception or some others perception that he is akin to a music God. Its a fact. Ilayaraja is not a musician to chose. Once some music critic wrote about Ludwig Van Beethoven expressing his love for the same that ”one cannot have Beethoven as a choice to choose from as ones favourite composer. He defines music”. In the same way Ilayaraja is not a composer whose music you can have for a choice. It defines what music is for me and for crores of other music lovers. You ask me to choose from ARR and Yuvan or Harris- i would choose ARR. You ask me to choose from ARR and Rd Burman I would choose RD Burman. Ask me to choose from Manisharma and Vidyasagar i would choose both.
            But dont ask me to choose from IR and ARR or IR and Rd Burman or IR and some other composer. He cannot be a choice to choose from. Thats the whole point. he defines music. Similarly you cannot ask me to choose from Beethoven and Mozart. They define music and cannot be choices. But there could be preferences. But preferences come only after you understand their work in totality.

        • milliblog

          Rahul… welcome back. I concede defeat – I cannot argue with you. You win. In writing R-E-A-L-L-Y long, meandering comments, that is.

          • rahul sudarshi

            Hello Karthik that wasnt meant to be particularly aimed at one particluar reviewer i.e you. Iam asking the same question which IR once asked few journalists when they talked about reviewers. Iam asking on his behalf.

          • rahul sudarshi

            And also i dont know why you are worried about the length or the meandering nature of my talk. Comeon Karthik see the gist of what i have written not the form. Thanks,

          • milliblog

            For that to happen, you need to make ‘a’ point. Your point of ‘Ilayaraja is the greatest composer ever to have graced this Earth, for all periods the Earth has been in existence so far and will ever be in the future’ has been made many times before.

            Everything else is fluff. I’d like to point out that the above theory is not a fact. It is an opinion. One person’s opinion. It may be 200 others’ opinion, or 2 million others’ opinion, but it is still an opinion. I can very, very easily disprove it by simply saying, ‘I don’t think so’.

            That logic has 2 distinct elements.
            1. ‘I’ – that is, me, the person different from you, disagrees with your theory. It is not like disagreeing with you when you say that the Earth is round, however.
            2. ‘don’t think so’ – this is the person besides you, that is me (and others) do not think their frame of mind, exposure, interest levels and musical awareness (however small, big or insignificant you may want to call it) allows them to agree with you.

            The best part is that you can’t do anything about it. Because that’s how opinions work. All you can do is continue to expect people to see things from your point of view and coax them to, by using lesser ALL CAPS text in the mistaken assumption that it somehow makes your personal opinion seem like fact.

            But if everybody started seeing things from your point of view, that would mean you have phenomenal control over people’s minds. That is not the case… yet. Thankfully.

            That’s also not how the world works, generally. Again, thankfully.

          • rahul sudarshi

            You made a most trivial point. Everybody agrees with what you are saying. Iam saying Ilayaraja’s music is a theory. It has a truth element in it. Its like Newtons law of Gravity which no one can deny. Its not for me or for 2 million others . Its a fact. You cannot understand that because you dont know what it is i must suppose. Will you disagree that Bach was a great composer or that Einstein was one of the greatest physicists of all time?? Can you deny Ramanujan was the greatest mathematician born in India?. Similarly you cannot deny Ilayaraja is one of the greatest composers ever that the world has seen. For you to see that you must first understand what his music is. Your logic about logic is very trivial and i agree upon that but you havent said why IR isnt the greatest yet. If you are different try to put points why he is not. If you put the same argument that i do then IR isnt the greatest composer is merely your opinion. So you see the fallacy of all your logical reasoning ends.

          • milliblog

            “Will you disagree that Bach was a great composer”
            — Yes, I could. I would say, ‘Bach was *one of the greatest* composers, amongst many others’. My personal favorites are Beethoven and Rachmaninof, incidentally.

            “Will you disagree that Einstein was one of the greatest physicists of all time”
            — I wouldn’t disagree. You yourself said, ‘one of the greatest’.

            “Can you deny Ramanujan was the greatest mathematician born in India?”
            — Yes, I can. Even Ramanujan himself would, if he were to listen to you. Because you haven’t qualified that statement with a time period. Why can’t Aryabhatta be India’s greatest mathematician? If you say, Ramanujan was the greatest mathematician born in Indian in the last 2 centuries, that perhaps is a more logical statement.

            So there. I don’t deny – never would – that Ilayaraja is *one of the greatest composers* from India, I’d not compare him with Bach and Beethoven, but with his contemporaries. And I’d place Madan Mohan and RD Burman alongside Raja as some of the greatest.

            Hence, the only issue I have with your logic is ‘he is THE greatest’ and ‘ever’. That’s the extreme stand I’m trying to make you consider… rather reconsider. But you don’t need to, specifically – you have the right hold any opinion you think is appropriate.

          • rahul sudarshi

            How could you place Madan mohan and RD Burman along side Raaja. Its a great insult to Ilayaraja. Yes even i love Rd Burman and Madan Mohan but putting them beside IR is restricting him to India and that too to film music. Its like putting Abdul Kalam along side Albert Einstein and saying they are some of the greatest scientists of this era. What stupid logic is that? If you are a fan of Madan and RD keep that to yourself. The fact is they are great but they cannot even stand beside Ilayaraja(in terms of music) .Yeah i know what iam talking here. I listen to Naushad, Madan mohan, op nayyar, C RAMACHANDRA, SD BURMAN, MSV KV MAHADEVAN AND many more. All of them are great but not comparable at all with IR. i dont know how you can put Madan and RD beside IR?

          • milliblog

            “How could you place Madan mohan and RD Burman along side Raaja”
            — Very simple. I’m not you. If I were you, I wouldn’t place him along side Madan Mohan and RD Burman. But because I’m not you, I’m able to do it. And that’s what makes each of us unique, whether you like it or not.

          • rahul sudarshi

            Ok then i would place ARR along side Thaman and Devi sri Prasad. Lol. i feel they are much better. Any ways you didnt get my question. How can you put Madan Mohan and RD Burman on the same level with Ilayaraja?.
            1.Tell me a proper western Hollywood style theme of Madan Mohan or RD Burman?.
            2.Tell me a folk+classical+jazz mixed song of Madan mohan OR RD. Tell me a instrumentless Cappella kind of composition of these two composers.
            3.Show me a composition of both these composers where the chord density is as high as IR or even half?
            4.Tell me a soundtrack or OST of these composers which gives you a complete international feel without giving you an inch feel of Indian nativity.
            5.Show me a composition of these two or any other Indian composer where the genres keep shifting so seamlessly from one to completely unrelated another and still give compactness to the composition as IR’S Music does?
            6.Tell me the prolificity of both RD and Madan together? Not even Half of IR (RD=400+madan90+ or 100 of Madan)
            7. Show me the compostions of these composers or anyothers where the instruments play equal role as the singer which is the unique quality of IR’s music?
            There are many more fronts on which these 2 or anyother composer cannot compete with IR.
            You might still say that i dont need all that ill still prefer Madan. Ofcourse you are always entitled to your inclinations and likes. But when it comes to art at the highest level you can actually objectively compare them. As long as you say its only a subjective opinion you are not being open to what is being discussed.

          • rahul sudarshi

            For you it is difficult to accept IR as the greatest. So you argue your way. For me i know for sure he is the greatest(atleast in India) and hence i argue this way. Thats done there.

          • milliblog

            Please feel free to compare Rahman with anyone you want, including Srikanth Deva. Or, please feel free comparing Himesh to anyone else you want.

            I can answer all 7 of your questions, by jogging my memory or doing some kind of research, having tracked their careers. But it’s a time investment – I need to be enthused enough to invest my time to do it. With your style of relentless badgering, I don’t think it is worth doing, right now, in my life. You could always spend more time countering every example of mine and sticking to your point.

            The simple point is, I’m not interested in convincing you of my position or opinion. Because, I believe art is not objective – all art is subjective. You don’t agree and this argument will never end, as a result. And I don’t have time to waste on something as fundamental as art being subjective or objective.

            If you’re keen to change my opinion, please go ahead and keep trying.

          • rahul sudarshi

            I never said art is objective. Iam saying artists of great stature are reviewed and compared taking into account the structure and the elements of their compositions which are sometimes non subjective. That point you seem to miss. for example when people talk of Bach they talk about the Harmony and the structure of his music and when they talk about Beethoven they talk about the fire and the aggression in his compositions. Now the structure and Harmony are not subjective. They can be perceived and analysed. But what those structures do to you, do they excite you are not that is purely subjective.
            And iam not trying to change your opinion here iam trying to say after much study of most Indian composers that none can be a match in IR. Iam entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to disagree too. And the difference is I say why i say what i say and you say what you say saying everything is subjective. Thats the major difference.

          • milliblog

            “But what those structures do to you, do they excite you are not that is purely subjective.”
            — Precisely. We, as individuals, form opinion about art based on what it does to us. You cannot decide that PC Sreeram is the greatest cinematographer ever because he had 17 crane shots, 2 wide angle shots, 22 close-ups and one diffused lighting shot in a film. What reaction did it produce in you, in totality, is the point.

            And from that pov, since most of RD Burman’s and Madan Mohan’s fans would be from the North and would have only heard a smattering of Raja’s music, all comparisons need to be subjective. Not based on ‘do all 3 have hollywood style compositions’, ‘have they mixed folk-classical-jazz?’ etc.

          • rahul sudarshi

            In the same way you are not me and iam not you. So if i were you i would have said IR is on par with Rd and madan but since iam not you i say that he is the Greatest ever. Ok thats my line: Iam not you and hence can say IR is the greatest ever.

          • milliblog

            Of course, please say it. Who is stopping you? There’s a difference between stopping you in saying that and saying that I don’t agree and if you notice, I’m saying the latter.

          • rahul sudarshi

            Ok i agree but i didnt get a good enough reply regarding RD and Madan Mohan.you didnt answer my questions there as to in what way they are on par with IR.If you say just like that then ok thats subjectivity but since this is a musical forum iam interested in a musical discussion as to what is what which is mostly objective with a mix of subjectivity in it.

          • milliblog

            Read my lips (figuratively): Music, or art, is NOT objective. It is subjective. You cannot mix objectivity in things that are highly subjective.

        • Sathyajitk

          Greatest Composer in the World? Can you factually prove that? Its your Opinion. Probably the Opinion of some of Rajas Fans. But how can you argue your Opinion as though its a Fact?! You seem to think ARR as an Ordinary Composer, which again is YOUR and not the MAJORITY of the World’s Opinion. But you cant digest Karthik’s Opinion that the song is outdated? Please dont try to force your Notions that Raja is Great, if you dont have the decency to accept others Opinions. Yours in merely an Opinion. NOT A FACT.

          You can say Raja has composed so many Number of Songs or you can say Raja has so many number of Awards. Those are Facts you cant argue. You cant argue an Opinion as though its a Fact.

          Secondly, Western Classical and Symphonies Genres have stayed more or less the same since the Medieval Ages. I.e. This Type of Music has not been subject to much changes. Much similar to Indian Classical. Hence you cant really argue “Outdation” in this Genre.

          Indian Film Music has evolved and changed over the Years. So there is MUCH scope for a Composition being Outdated (even if it is composed by Raja). Something that was Intended 25 – 30 Back in a Movie being used today, does make it look jaded and outdated.

          • rahul sudarshi

            Yes Raaja is the greatest composer in the world. I have all the proof for that. Why do you think he is not? tell me that first. If iam convinced why he is not then i would take the time to write and explain why he is the greatest in the world. I can give 100s of examples why He is the zenith of film music scoring in the world. But let me know first why he is not the greatest.

          • Sathyajitk

            Again your 100s of Examples are Opinions. Someone in Norway or even North India isnt going to agree with your “Proofs”.

            I cant deride Raja, like you would to a certain composer, cos i am a Huge Fan of the Genius. However, to List a Few of my “Opinions” (which also happen to be facts):

            > Raja’s Not so popular Ventures beyond the South. Yes, he did have some fantastic albums when he did venture up North. But he wasnt the Best or Most Dominant Music Composer in the Country was he? Or even Popular? I am SURE you would disagree saying that Raja was & is the Most Successful Music Composer in India.
            > Highest number of Records Sold in the World? Nope.
            > 5000 + Music Compositions / Songs. But not they Highest in the World! Someone else has 8000+ Compositions.
            > 1000 Movies Composed by Raja. This is a Great achievement, which will definitely not be broken. Still this doesn’t make this the Greatest. Only the Guy with Maximum Film Scores.
            > His Inability to Adapt to Trends / Change. This one I am sure you are going to disagree with. As per my Opinion (I am Bold enough to accept it) Raja’s standards in Music Dropped in the Early 90s. Number of Movies / Albums also Dropped considerably. He has shown Genius with some Albums here and there. But not as consistent as he was in the 80s. You going to say No cos you like all his Songs till date. [Not a Coincidence that he National Awards were in the 80s, except Pazhasi Raja for BGM in 00s, Those were his Glory Days. Greatest Composers are Consistent throughout their Lifespan (Raja is, but not to the extent you define him)]
            > Domestic Recognition – Matched for Maximum Number of National Awards by the “Average Musician” ARR (whose still got considerable amount of years left in Composing Sense)
            > International Recognition – I’m Going to Skip this One to avoid you Embarrassment. (You are Going to Tell me Raja’s Greatness Does’nt need recognition by Award Juries and People. Only Fans like you can understand his Greatness.. blah blah blah – which is again an Opinion).

            > He has only Composed for Indian Films, which all were very very very Indian in Nature, obviously. We havent hear him Compose for a Hollywood Venture or a Sci-Fi Movie or Adventure Movie with Demanding Orchestral Arrangements (which he is capable of making of course)? How is he the Zenith of Film Music Scoring without you having heard such a Thing from the Man? “Zenith of Film Scoring”? Seriously? haven’t heard of Hanz Zimmer or John William? Has Raja

            A Select Group of People Celebrating him as the Greatest doesn’t make him the Greatest Ever Composer or Living Composer for that Matter. If you have FACT, proven FACT written on Books stating Raja is the Greatest Ever Composer please come back. If you are Going to Give me More and More of your Opinions, you can keep them, as I have seen enough Raja fans do this! Your just being a Fanatic and not Fair.

          • rahul sudarshi

            You seem to be a silly man who doesnt have his facts right. Lol you are talking about John Williams and Hans Zimmer ? lol are they the only ones you know???. I listen to each and every composer right from Bach in the 16th century to IR in the present generation. My list of favourites would take you lots of time to know who they actually are. Lol IR is the only composer in India who has done a proper BGM for a SCI FI mOVIE. Its the telugu movie ADITYA-369. listen to the title score and see if MR. Hans Zimmer can come up with such stuff.

            In fact you might just be knowing Hans zimmer and a few of his compositions. I know most of his compositions and his style.

            1. IR has composed the grandest time machine theme music in the telugu movie i mentioned above. Do listen and see if any other Indian composer has done such stuff.There are 1000’s such themes from IR

            2. Ilayaraja jas been named the 9th greatest composer in world film music history by TASTEOFCINEMA. According to that even Hans Zimmer and James Horner are at 13th and 14th places. This IR has achieved without scoring for a single Hollywood movie. And Ilayaraja is the only Indian composer to feature in that list.Had he composed for Hollywood movies the world would have been at his feet.

            3. All music directors who know IR call him as the ultimate and the God of music.

            I claim Ilayaraja to be uncomparable in the following concerns.
            1. Songs
            2. Background Music
            3. Trend Setter
            4. Consistency
            5. Carnatic Music
            6. Albums
            7. Multi Lingual Perfomance
            8. Customizing Songs for directors/actors
            9. Technology in music
            10. His magnanimity
            11. His responsibity in making the film A super hit
            12. His Productivity – Quickness & Excellence
            13. His professional Composing style
            14. Promoting the cine industry / consumer electronics

            4. People who know music definitely adore Ilayaraja and say he is incomparable.

            Here are few examples:

            1. Dr.BALAMURALIKRISHNA (Eminent Carnatic Vocalist, India)- As far as i am concerned, i would say Ilaiyaraja is the composer of the century. If there is one single authority on ‘orchestration’, it can only be ilaiyaraja.

            2.S.P.BALASUBRAHMANYAM (Eminent Singer, Music Director, India) – There wont be another ilaiyaraja. He is par excellence, self taught and a complete composer. Improvising on original compositions of someone like ilaiyaraja has always been a dicey proposition for me. Some of my improvisations / touches get his nod, while in other instances when i go overboard, he would step in with a figurative spank in the ear. Me, Jesu anna and Chitra are all so lucky to have got the opportunity to sing hundreds of numbers in his music.

            3.BHARADHWAJ (Music Composer, India) – He is the master of background music. I watch films that has ilaiyaraja as the music director, just for his background scores. “Thalapathi” is one such movie, which i have watched umpteen times just for his BGMs.

            4.DEVI SRI PRASAD (Film Music Director, South India) – He is my God. I have grown up listening to his music. Whatever i am able to compose today, i owe it to this maestro.

            5.KAMALHAASAN (Noted Actor, Film Maker, India) – Ilaiyaraja should be honored as Isai Vigyani (musical scientist) rather than Isai gyani.He has explored and analyzed virtually every type of music.I have worked with several composers. But this man is on his own trip – he is a colossal talent. We have worked together in around 70 films and we know each other’s requirements and expectations very well. He saw the rushes of the film (Hey Ram!) just once and immediately decided the music to be scored for the song sequences that have already been picturised. I told my film crew to give me a week’s time and that I will come back with one song in that time – instead I came back with seven songs.

            6.LALGUDI JAYARAMAN (Eminent Musician, India) – His talent is not the fruit of one single birth’s efforts. This level of achievement is only possible to one who has lived with music for countless births. The speed with which he writes notations have always baffled me.

            7.LASLOV KOVACH (Conductor, Budapest Symphony Orchestra, Hungary) – He is Hollywood Kind. A very special composer. It seems he does not have to think at all to create music. Music just flows out. The feeling that you experience, while you listen to his compositions, is often quite inexplicable. It is unfortunate that the world is yet to recognize this composer. It is not a loss for Him, but it is, to the music world.

            8.MANDOLIN U.SRINIVAS (Mandolin Maestro, South India)- Knowing well the genius that he is, what can i say about his music? Like Muthuswami Dikshithar and Thyagaraja Swamigal, ilaiyaraaja too has created pure classical krithis and i had the privilege of playing these compositions in ragas like rajalahari, ragavardhini, rukmambari and kalyani.

            9.MARK LAYCOCK (Director of Orchestral Activities, Iowa State University, Iowa, United States of America) – A fascinating blend of Eastern and Western styles. The music is instantly appealing — rhythmically, harmonically, formally. The use of traditional Indian instruments in a modern musical context makes for a rich palette of tone colors and creates a wide range of expressive possibilities.

            10.MASSIMO SIMONINI (Composer & Founder of ANGELICA forum, Italy) – The music of ilaiyaraaja, besides containing many forms, is a good object of reflections and meditations on the form, on its consume, for an eventual, possible expansion. It shows models & rare formulae, unthinkable for the western music song world or western cinema. His film songs feature a metrics that is strictly linked to the images, to the atmospheres of the movie, while the movie itself appears to be composed by a myriad of narrative video clips, which in turn give the song an opening towards other musical forms – A moving open form, that is strictly linked to the inspiration of the moment, ready to welcome anything in a surprising structure, enriched by a, still so strong, indian tradition, where rhythm, melody, devotion and surprise travel together. These entities are seen moving in places where style and form can be continually re-discussed, while still following a logic, a narration. It¹s almost like a kaleidoscopic song, full of rules, but also rich in expressive possibilities…keeps moving…truly vedic .

            11.NAUSHAD ALI (doyen of hindi film music, India)- That this man has achieved is 100 times more than what any of us have achieved; only time can tell the quantum of his achievements.

            12.RAJKUMAR SANTOSHI (Noted Film Maker, India ) – (on Background music by Maestro Ilaiyaraja for his film Lajja) – The discipline of the 90 musicians, the conductor and the recording engineers of the Budapest Symphony Orchestra in Hungary was overwhelming. The musicians gave a standing ovation after recording the scores written by Ilaiyaraja.

            13.RICHARD KING (Sound Engineer of Thiruvasagam in Symphony, Winner of 5 Grammy awards) – Even his thoughts are musical. Ilaiyaraaja is the musical face of India, which the western world is really stunned at !!!

            14.SHERYAR OOKERJEE ( a Mumbai based musicologist, India) – Bach’s influence is deep and all pervasive in his music. He is adept at using conventional western harmony and standard western techniques. Uses dialogue and imitation extensively. He has a competent grasp of the orchestra. His conspicuous quality is his ability to so integrate the Indian and western idioms that the seams can hardly be noticed and the result is usually pleasant, charming and satisfying. Ilaiyaraja’s music is enjoyable and worth taking very seriously. It grows on one with repeated hearings.

            15.STEPHEN DAVIS (of New Age, USA) – He is leading us to a very special world of music appreciation and has opened doors of new horizons of new age music.

            16.L.SUBRAMANIAM (Violin Maestro, India)- Ilaiyaraja is as good as any composer in the world.

            17.SUDHA RAGUNATHAN (Eminent Carnatic Vocalist, India )-Yesterday, today or tommorrow, ilaiyaraja will remain the unquestionable emperor of music.

            18.USHA UTHUP (Singer, India) – ilaiyaraja is a complete music director who has mastered classical and Western music, and also has a strong base in folk. He provides an unique fusion of all three systems, and is therefore amazing to me.

            19.UTTAM SINGH (Music Composer, India) – Ilaiyaraaja is perhaps the only complete music composer in India.

            20.VICTOR RANGEL RIBEIRO ( musicologist and author of Baroque Music, USA) – Your ears will hear music like they.

            21.ZUBIN MEHTA (Music Conductor, Israel Philharmonic) – I was bewildered after listening to his ‘nothing but wind’ and ‘how to name it’. He belongs to the 21st century and perhaps beyond.never heard before.

            All these are only a few of the examples where celebrities who know much about music than you do spoke about IR. There are millions of such instances.

            Lol you seem to be kid who dont know whom are you talking about. IR is the doyen of Indian film music whose name brings tremors in the knees of all other film composers.
            I know Hans zimmer, I know John williams, James Horner, Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Tchaikovsky, Ennio Morricone, James Horner, Alan Silvestri, Edward Showre, Jerry Goldsmith, John Barry and most other greatest composers of the world .I BEGAN TO UNDERSTAND THEIR MUSIC ONLY AFTER LISTENING TO ILAYARAJAS MUSIC. AFTER LISTENING TO IR AND ALL THESE GREAT COMPOSERS LISTENING TO ARR SEEMS LIKE LISTENING TO SCHOOL BOY STUFF. ARR DOESNT EVEN HAVE A SPACE IN THE LIST.
            The fact is most composers give the color of western but they dont know what western music is all about. Give or show me a proper western orchestrated soundtrack of ARR or any other Indian composer. It must be pure hollywood kind? Is there any??? But ill give you hundreds of such pure Hollywood scores of Raaja even from small budget movies which have even gone unnoticed.
            So better get your facts right before speaking to me and show me a piece which is completely western orchestrated and Hollywood kind stuff from an Indian composer other than Ilayarajas??

          • Sathyajitk

            As I told you that Raja is definitely Great! And a Tribute by all these People by Raja is unsurprising. First please take your Narcissistic Attitude and shove it up where it should be. I used John Williams and Hanz Zimmer as they are Contemporary and ARE Considered Great by many currently in the World. As you Rightly said Mozart is the “Definition of Music” in some comment below, I do come from the same School of though.

            I am a Big Fan of Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Verdi, or Chopin. So you can shove your Opinion and your Superiority Complex where it belongs. Thank you.

            > Honestly I havent heard Aditya – 369. Cant comment. I dont disagree that Raja’s BGMs can be scintillating. But then Listen to something called “Interstellar” by Hanz Zimmer (whom you consider a Joke). This is not one of his Oscar Winning Materials. But is probably one of the Best Film (okay atleast SCI FI) Soundtracks of all Times. I am sure you will disagree.

            > Taste of Cinema is some Random Idiotic Blog which Posts about Movies. You are willing to agree with the OPINION of that Blog (just cos Raja has been mentioned by the Western Media,[which happens very rarely]) but you have the Audacity to come here and Disprove Karthik’s Opinion on his Blog? Who are these Taste of Cinema? What are their Credentials? Are they recognized by People? Or do their Lists have a Meaning? There are quite a Lot of Indian Writers in Taste of Cinema FYI (A friend of mine writes there too). So this has no Credentials or Backing.

            Has Raja been recognized by a Famous International Musical Academy? Or for heavens sake has there been a Single International Honor / Award (except one Mickey Mouse Award he won in Norway). NO!!!! Do you disagree with me this on this? Dare you to!

            There has been great amount of International and National praise for A R Rahman as well (i unlike you will not sit and google all these speeches and put it here). Plus Rahman is only around 40. So people will use different kinds of words to describe a 70 Year old Great and a 40 Year old Contemporary. (NOT A RAHMAN FAN HERE PLEASE)

            You seem to laugh at my inclusion of Zimmer. By the Time he has retired, he will also be considered to be one of the Greatest in the World. I follow ALL Movies of Zimmer. Not just the soundtrack but the Movies. I watch even the Shitty ones. Your the fool who laughs like a School Kid, when I include Zimmer here. He has won Countless Recognition. Raja? Sorry.

            Lot of the Poeple who you have listed are South Indians. Therefore much of the Opinions that have been posted are emanating from South India, as previously argued by me. (Some of these people you mention like DSP, Bharadwaj etc are all very very average). The Bollywood Praise is great. Raja is Great. But again these were not for his Bollywood Compositions. He was not even a part of this Industry (which is not too great in my opinion) Western praise come from people who are not contemporary greats or even Faded Greats. He has got praise from some People who are not considered the Best in the World (MY OPINION).

            Rahman has many On Par Hollywood Compositions in ‘People Like Us’, ‘Couples Retreat’ and ‘127 Hours’. For Heaven’s Sake Listen to his Version of Chopin’s Nocturne or Liberation in 127 Hours. Youll Ignore all this and you will talk about Bland Rahman Compositions like I and Lingaa. Even Elizabeth had Brilliant Music in it.

            Of the Top of my Head, in Indian Movies, Rahman’s “Theme” in Enthiran (not the main one) was fabulous and worthy of a Hollywood Peice. Even “Enge Pogudho” with its Brilliant Trumpets, Horns and Violins was Grand and worthy of being a Hollywood Piece (it was Short Listed for the Oscars btw).

            Recently Listen to the Compositions by Ghibran for Uthama Villain, which sounds as good as a Broadway Musical with a Good Indian Touch.

            Again and again and again you are coming to me with your Opinions and People’s Opinions. NO FACTS AT ALL!! Tell me that a Great International Musical Body has recognized his Greatness and Honored him something,

          • rahul sudarshi

            First prove me that only an internationally recognised artist is a great artist? whats your useless logic here? Its you who has shown much attitude here. Only an internationally recognised composer is great. You fool . Johann Sebastian Bach the great composer was considered only an organist in his life time. 150 years after his death it was Felix Mendelssohn of Germany who revived the interest in his music. S o during the life time of Bach he was not known outside Europe. Does that make him lesser? Whats that school kid logic?
            1. what are the credentials of the Academy which gives oscars first tell me that? And in 2012 John Williams didnt win an Oscar for his fantastic album warhorse. It was some other lesser known person who won it. So does that mean that the album by Johhny was anything lesser compared to that newone. Whats this stupidity here:?
            2.Rahman’s theme in Enthiran ? I dont even remember. I generally do remember all stuff which is great by any composer. So by that logic since i dont remember anything from Enthiran i must suppose it didnt have any. Coming to Hans Zimmer. Hehe, i have listened to Interstellar so many times. I never said its not great. Not only that i follow Hans zimmer’s music right from his Rainman(1988) days.
            3. And coming to you making a mockery of me googling and typing some facts , i must say yeah i did that coz i cant waste much time in typing and explaining to you who doesnt even know what IR is all about.
            4. Your logic is the most stupidest i have come across. You seem to say all the praises on IR are by Lesser South Indian Talents. Iam asking you how these south Indian talents are lesser than the empty headed Academy sitting in Hollwood? Art is art any where. YOU seem be in an illusion that anything which comes from the west is superior and anything(including opinions) generated in India are lesser opinions. This sick attitude of yours is the reason why India has been losing its identity offlate.TELL ME HOW THE ACADEMY OR GRAMMY OR SAMI OR WHATEVER TOM DICK AND HARRY IS BETTER PLACED TO JUDGE AND ACKNOWLEDGE MUSICAL TALENT THAN SOUTH INDIAN MUSIC ARTISTS.
            5. lol i mentioned DSP just for the sake of mentioning. Even i know he is nothing.lol But who is Grammy??? who are they to decide what IR is? Who is the Academy? what are its credentials. DARE TO TALK LESS ABOUT SOUTH INDIANS OR INDIANS AGAIN. TRY TO SEE THE MAGIC OF ILAYARAJA.
            6. There are 100s of soundtracks of IR which Hans Zimmer would worship if he happens to hear them. But that may ot maynot happen. You are arguing as if the WEST IS THE AUTHORITY AND WE ARE THE SLAVES TO ACCEPT THEM. What sort of a pathetic argument is yours? THE ENTIRE WORLD HAS ALREADY ACCEPTED THE GREATNESS OF ILAYARAJA.
            7. LOOK at classicfm.com(Iam sure your friend doesnt work there) . It puts IR in the greatest composers of the world list. Can you deny that? whats this sick attitude? Cant The Indian Bunch recognise their own worth? You need a certificate from an International body? What credentials they have? Whether you accept or not IR for me is the ultimate composer greatest than Hans Zimmer and John Williams, IR along with Ennio Morricone i think are the two greatest film composers of all time. Even Hans Zimmer worships Ennio.
            8. ARR is a mere school kid who is just lucky to have gotten his recognition. His compositions offlate are irritating to the core. DSP, THAMAN are much better than ARR. And i would like DSP and Thaman to win the Oscars one day so that the west obsessed Indian empty heads would recognise the worthlessness of the award. lol.

          • Sathyajitk

            I at no Juncture said that Indian Music is not Great or we Must Bow Before our Western Masters!! I am Only trying to counter argue your Point that IR is the Greatest in the World!! If he is the Greatest in the World, surely he must be recognized by World Shoud’nt he? Bach wasn’t discovered in his era as the World wasnt such a Small Place back then. Getting Recognized in your Own Street was a Big Deal. In today’s World Great Getting Recognized is much Easier, which have lead to Many Many Many Indians being Recognized Worldwide. SINCE you argued IR is the Greatest in the World I Bring in the Argument that he should be recognized Internationally {WHICH ALSO INCLUDES THE WEST unfortunately).

            By NO WAY is our Indian Music any way lesser (thats fabricated by you) and by No way is Western Recognition Needed for our Artists. But since you said Raja is the Greatest in World EVER, the whole world should agree to it. Not just in your head but out there in the Real World.

            I made the reference to South India Composers cos, i made an argument that Raja is Popular Predominantly in South India, so i pointed out that mostly South Indians spoke about him, which is line with my argument. That was not to say South Indian Artists know nothing about Music. I would not demean Indian Artists, especially South Indian artists, as Ive grown up listening to these People. Please learn to read and understand meaning of whats being told.

            You are trying to deride me for Slating South Indian Musicians, but you are So Proud and Opinionated that you would Deride an INDIAN who made India proud on the World Stage by saying Rahman is Incompetent and Won it by Luck. Warhorse was unreal and it was a disaster that John Williams did not win. But when the WORLD (note not the West) was willing to appreciate Rahman, you would deride Him? So much for your Speech on me putting down the Indian Impression against the West.

            And you Empty Headed Guy, I did not say Zimmer is the Greatest in the World. When I included Zimmer and John Williams are there you joked at me suggesting that I included them. Thats why the Reference to them. Just like I dont own Zimmer, you dont own Raja. I am not even saying he is the Best. John Williams will outscore Zimmer any day of the Week.

            Just because you are remember something in Enthiran Doesnt mean It doesnt exist. Thats a Narcissistic Approach.

            You said Greatest in the World, Hence making References to The World. You do realize that West is a Part of the World Correct. Hence we need their Opinion too. I am not bothered by the West’s Opinions or Comments. But again WORLD includes them too. Hence opinion needed.

            Okay Leave International Honour. IR and ARR have the same number of National Awards (DOMESTIC HONOR). These Judges are fools too correct? Who are the fools? The Ones that gave Raja Awards or Rahman? Everyone are fools in this World of yours.

            Just as Incompetent as the Academy Award Jury is to Award Rahman an Oscar, your Telling me CityFM is more Competent to Include IR in their list of Good Musicians? That makes it even does’nt it. Coming back to my argument, you are willing to quote references from other blogs and sites (which offer personal opinions) and expect us to listen to opinion, but you will not listen to Karhtik’s opinion in this Blog? This is all too convenient to you correct.

          • rahul sudarshi

            Dont twist words here. I never fabricated about Indian music. It was you and your half knowledge that said Lesser South Indian artists’ opinion is not as valid as the opinion of an international body. So Dont try to mix words and point. Accept it or that thats the attitude of a typical Indian slave minded one.
            1. One can be a great artist or great in any thing and still not be recognised world wide. Even the notion of world recognition is a myth. Its not completely true. For ex. Sachin Tendulkar is considered the greatest or one of the greatest batsmen of all time in cricket. But The Russian Maria Sharapova doesnt know Sachin in the 1st place. That doesnt mean that Sachin is not great. It only means the Russians dont know about Sachin. Similarly just because the average westerner doesnt know IR it doesnt mean he is anything lesser. It only means he hasnt done enough work to be recognised there. But even without working much in the west IR has got considerable International recognition if you want.
            2. I mentioned WarHorse and Sir John Williams because it was you who brought the topic of Academy and were talking about recognition from an international body. I have the least interest in the Academy or Grammy. People like you recognise greatness after awards are given. There are other bunch who can know the value of people who arent known world wide. I try to be in the 2nd category.
            3.Yeah thats what in todays world getting world recognition is much easier and that is one of the main reasons why ARR has got some recognition. In future The DSPS and the Thamans might as well make India proud by winning oscars. But i dont see the award won by ARR for SlumDog as anything worthwhile to celebrate. The reason is it didnt reflect the true spirit of Indian music or whatver in it. Its just a bunch of songs made for a masala movie which depicted India in a bad light which has won the award. There are many other albums of ARR even which might have won the Academy. But Slumdog is the worst choice.
            4.You are so bothered about world recognition. By your logic even India is in the world proper. But most people in India (80percent) might not know who Hans Zimmer is except people like you and me who listen to his work. So has Hans Zimmer Got any international recognition(which incldes India, china, Russia, Africa) to be considered great? Just because people in USA, Europe and some juntha like you and me with internet connection know Hans Zimmer know him is he internationally acclaimed? So you see the fallacy of your argument. Theres no truth in it.
            5.You maroon i never quoted from blogs. Classicfm.com is an international database for classic music. Better have alook at it before equating that with Karthik’s blog lol.

          • Sathyajitk

            Again I never said South inidan Musicians are not good. Again and agian you are Misinterpreting. I told you clearly that The Oscars were reference to international fame. Thats all.

            Again Sachin being the Best is your Opinion. An Aussi woul say Bradman/. I Would say Dravid. A West Indian wuld say Lara.
            Maria Sharapova is not a Cricket Fan Simple.

            Okay but then you have not proven that your Opinion is a Fact. See I am a big raja fan too. But Opinions cant be made Facts by just sounding Louder.

          • Sathyajitk

            And when did I say south Indian artists are lesser? Did I use these words? And when did I say these people’s opinions don’t matter? That’s your assumption!! My statement was that most of these are south Indian musicians. So their opinions make Raja the greatest south Indian composer.

            Trying to be offensive in your comments or repeating your opinions over and over again (which aren’t facts ) and fabricating something that I did not say (Absolute misinterpretation by you) doesn’t win you arguments. Facts win you arguments. Not opinions. anyway it seems there is no point in arguing with you as you will again misconsture my words and say something else. I would be retarded to continue this argument.

            Btw the opening theme you shared was fantastic. Yet have heard better. (My opinion you don’t have a right to argue here),

          • Vijayakumar P

            Hey, you are always comparing RAJA sirs recent movie songs with some X,Y, Z holly wood composers Background scores.
            My simple question is, did you never listened to Heyram, Virumandi, Mahanathi, Thalapathi, Mounaragam, Azhagarsamyin kuthirai, Nandalala, and etc., movies BGM’s.
            Even i can give you more which nobody can think of such raw compositions: Pithamagan & Naan Kadavul.

            Here and there your statements have flaws and no unity to stick on to your points.

            As many of you think, music is not just about movie songs and background scores. It is beyond movies and all other commercial stuffs. RAJA sir stands out and makes music. He has done everything what new composers starts trying today. He is nowhere comparable with 20, 30 movies done composers. RAJA sir not only achieved in quantity also in quality. Nobody today can give such pure music what he produced in 80’s. He is pure and no trade mark in music as he done all genres. But few composers whom you claim internationally recognized, even never tried what RAJA sir has succeeded.

          • rahul sudarshi

            You empty headed arguer whats the need of an international body? SUNNY LEONE THE PORNSTAR IS KNOWN INTERNATIONALLY AND THAT DOESNT MAKE HER THE GREATEST WOMEN IN THE WORLD. Your logic is the sickest logic i ever heard especially from the empty headed ARR fans.Empty headed one whats the point in comparing Hans Recognition and IR here. Lol . Hans scores for Hollywood movies and hence the recognition. IR doesnt score for Hollywood and hence maybe lesser recognition. Even a school kid can understand this. Dont you see that? Dont act as if you own Hans Zimmer. For me Hans Zimmer is good but definitely not the greatest. John Williams and Ennio Morricone are the greatest Hollywood composers ever. Theres enough research done and enough proof and logic to say that. Yeah even i like and enjoy Hans Zimmer. Maybe you are a young kid below 24 who isnt exposed to the giants of Hollywood music.

            Show me one theme of Hans Zimmer which matches with the Schinlder’s List theme of Sir John Willams. You cannot because he hasnt done many.

            Hans Zimmer is the composer for most of the Hollywood Blockbusters right from 1997 and hence obviously he gets the recognition. Whats so special in that? Had some other composer had done he would have been in the limelight. Just because some other persons say Hans Zimmer you mustnt listen to him. For me Hans Zimmer and all the new age composers are good and great. But there will be only one John Williams, one Ennio Morricone and only one Ilayaraja.

            and coming to the score iam talking about please see the score below of IR which he had done in 1990. That was too much to imagine in an Indian film.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qzsuJPsICs

            show me one such theme from any Indian composer ?

          • Sathyajitk

            Lol whos logic is sick. You said Internationally Famous Pornstar. Not Woman. Why will I compare a ‘Pornstar’ with ‘Woman’. Theyre not the same. Men can be pornstars too. So the Reference must be specific. If you said she is internationally popular, I would call her the Greatest Pornstar (if that is my opinion). Not Greatest Woman.

          • Mayavi Ram

            Sathyajitk ..justin bieber and psy are the most popular singers in the world now ..LOL

          • Sathyajitk

            Correct. I dont regard the Most Famous the Best. But I cant deny Justin Beiber from having fans can I or their fans saying that he is the Best. As karthik said music is subjective.

          • rahul sudarshi

            Apura babu.. Your logic is too trivial for me to even consider.

          • Soorajprabhakaran Karan

            rahul sudarshi …. i like your all the reply to each…IR is my heart beat,,,the way described about him simply great…

          • lovethetech

            Hans Zimmer is not a composer. He is good at mix and match with very good cut & paste using the software loops.

          • Sathyajitk

            What? He used Live Recording in quite a Lot of albums like Interstellar. Read the Article where he explains how he wrote the Music for the Film. He was not told the Story / Script. Nolan just narrated Scenes & Situations to him, based on which he wrote the Score. Only the Final Mastering on the Score was done after watching the Visuals. How good do you have to be to do that especially with Live Composition?!

          • Vijayakumar P

            Really Sorry for the late reply. Did you never listen to “Shamitabh” songs and BGM scores. If NO, please come back after do that. You can never say that RAJA sir is an outdated composer. Even if you claim that, then you will be considered as an ignored person in Music. He is an University, if you want to do Medical, he is ready to teach you. If you want to study Computers, he is ready. But the choice is yours. You went to learn Maths, but how could you expect you should be taught History.

            Simply you can not degrade a Legend as you think. Current new gen composers are nowhere near to this EMPEROR.

      • Dileep S

        Offf ! Longest discussion/argument thread I have ever read in my life. But its interesting to read 🙂

        I would say few words

        First
        of all to talk about Karthik’s review, making a blunt statement on
        Choosuvoy is outdated is quite baseless and unfair. Raja has used Arabic
        rhythm and made Chitra to sing at her bass voice and it was never done
        before. Tune may not be very great but you have to see other aspects of
        the song before scrapping it as outdated.
        Despite the beat is
        similar to Arabic style but it is still in different signature and at
        least I have never heard it before. In one of the recent Telugu TV
        show’s well known lyricist Chandrabhose made a statement “Nobody can
        beat Ilayaraja’s beats ,except himself. In many songs he brings up a new
        rhytm.”

        Karthik made his point as all his reviews are his
        opinions if that is the case there is no point in arguing with him or
        trying to make him believe that Ilayaraja is the greatest composer of
        Indian cinema of our times. I can definitely place him a step next to
        Mozart/bach/ John Williams. Karthik said art is subjective. May be
        but to judge the value of an art we need to get into a comparison hence
        it becomes objective. First of all one should stop comparing ARR with
        IR. You can can not compare apple with mango. Both are different
        fruits. IR can be comparable along the lines of John Williams/Ennio
        Marricone where definitely ARR does not belong to. One can compare ARR
        with Devi , Taman, Amit Trivedi, Mani Sharma and near to that line. ARR
        is a good musicians but he has some weak points. He is very poor in
        western classical music and chord progression. He can not write score
        sheets for multiple instruments at once. What he does is he keeps adding
        one after the other that ultimately results in an incoherent output.
        For sure he has given some fantastic numbers earlier. I am a fan of many
        of his 90s numbers but as a matter of fact, we have to accept the fact
        that he is way below Raja when it comes to his abilities to compose some
        everlasting music and gripping background score.
        He is very slow
        composer. He needs at least a month to come up with a tune. That is fine
        as far as he delivers the best most of the time. He is good in
        bringing new sounds but his current generation music really sucks except
        few bits and pieces. The last few albums that I could say I liked as a
        whole is Alaipayuthe, Swadesh.
        He won oscar, which is great but that
        doesnt honour him the best composer of the world. I agree with Rahul’s
        point that Awards and rewards is not scale to judge a composers output.
        What matters is whose music long lasts ? And everyone know the answer.
        🙂

        Rahul made many facts to prove that IR is great. Most of them
        are facts. If one doesn’t want to change their opinion let it be. There
        is no point in wasting our time and energy in arguments to prove others
        are wrong.

        • uday kiran

          All those IR fans …just ask raja sir to come up with new plate of food not the same old ..copied from his own tunes …Rudramandevi has nothing new with music ..lets see how the movie goes

          • MusicLover

            And you think OK Kanmani tunes are never heard before : )

          • uday kiran

            Obviously they are refreshing tunes ..Please mention the repeated songs and reviews ….facts must be facts…and nobody stopped or stopping Raja sir to rule the music industry…

            Sent from my HTC

            —– Reply message —–

          • MusicLover

            I hear part boyz, udhaya, kadhal desam and what not.

        • Madan Mohan

          I can definitely place him a step next to
          Mozart/bach/ John Williams. – Whatever you do, you do NOT hyphenate Mozart/Bach/JW. Mozart and Bach both played a pivotal, indispensable role in the very development of western classical music. JW helped himself to artful adaptations of the Planets composition in different forms. IR himself would be flattered to know he is only one level below Mozart/Bach though he is imo the equal of JW, if not still greater.

          • Dileep S

            I second you Mohan

  • Guest

    Sounds more like ponnar Shankar..

  • Thaya Paran

    It is strange that ARR and his fans believe that ARR is the best and a Great Musician simply because he secured an award from western agency and he scored music for few English movies and he got international recognition. Why the fans in network forums compare
    ARR with IR and keep on trumpeting that ARR is the world renowned global music-director and IR is just a music director with limited popularity known in southern part of India. If ARR is global ace music genius why do you compare him with less popular IR? Why do we not look at the work of ARR with that of western composers?

    The list of the name of Music Directors nominated and awarded by Oscar is big. Not all music directors been awarded by Oscar Jury are great composers. Nevertheless, could anyone imagine to compare ARR’s computer generated (jai ho…) music to that of great compositions
    of legend Music Directors such as Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams, Quincy Jones, James Horner, Alan Silevstri, Howard Shore, James Newton Howard, Randy Newman, Trevor Rabin, Trevor Jones, Randy Edelman, Vangelis, Hans Zimmer, Alexander Desplat, Maurice Jarre, Richard Roders & Hammerstein, Thomas Newman and the names will grow. The background score of these music directors will elevate the
    movie watching to a great experience. Let the ARR fans watch few movies scored by these legendary music directors and then watch Slumdog Millionaire. ARR’s background score for films are monotonous and like viewing an advertisement clip. ARR’s jingle-work music can never be matched with those compositions of legendary Hollywood composers.

    Like our Indian politicians, ARR does too many PR job joining hands with commercial giants such as Air-tel, Toyota, Casio etc., to project him as one of the world renowned music directors by publishing photographs accompanied by white-men in the backdrop of global scenery. Actually, the kind of music work what ARR does is that he ropes in some
    jingle number as captive-tune, sits before computer months together fitting re-fitting, progressing re-progressing, mixing re-mixing, arranging
    re-arranging, choiring re-choiring, engineering computer controlled chords and rhythm, uses peculiar sounding instruments or sound generated from computer, does vocal recording in piece-meal without the singer knowing how his/her final rendition will sound and ultimately he will wangle system generated sound calling it as new generation and trendy music composition. Thereafter, the music score sheets are
    prepared by his paid employees.

    I have watched many Hollywood movies with grandeur background score of genuine legendary music directors and I used to wonder whether that kind of score could be written and performed by our
    countrymen. Net-wizards and Indian media supported by business giants keep on promoting and selling ARR brand titling as music-genius and Mozart of Madras for over twenty years, like all politicians and cine-heroes are being hailed in this country. Performance wise in my opinion ARR’s jingle-work cannot be compared with that of legendary music directors.

    • rahul sudarshi

      Thaya Paran , i agree with what all you have said. But i would like to add to what you have said ,that Ilayaraja is much respected and know to western musical community than ARR. And you said you wonder if you can hear a composition from an Indian matching with the great scores of Hollywood giants. We do have Maestro Ilayaraja who is as greater and some times much greater than the Hollywood composers you have mentioned. Really IR is on par with and sometimes greater than the best composers in the world. Iam surprised that you listen to all the great western film composers and didnt find any Indian composer matching them? Dont you know what Ilayaraja has done to Indian film music with his Background scoring? I think you must be knowing that. But the fact that you didnt mention the giant Raaja sir is surprising.

    • rahul sudarshi

      Not only that,Iam yet to find a composer in the whole world whose Background scores are as grand and mystical/powerful as Maestro Ilayaraja’s. This i say after listening to all the great composers from all regions of the world.

    • Somu

      Director Baz Luhrmann said:

      I had come to the music of A. R. Rahman through the emotional and haunting score of Bombay and the wit and celebration of Lagaan. But the more of AR’s music I encountered the more I was to be amazed at the sheer diversity of styles: from swinging brass bands to triumphant anthems; from joyous pop to West-End musicals. Whatever the style, A. R. Rahman’s music always possesses a profound sense of humanity and spirit, qualities that inspire me the most

    • Somu

      His first soundtrack, for Roja, was listed on Time’s all-time “10 Best Soundtracks” in 2005. Film critic Richard Corliss said that the composer’s “astonishing debut work parades Rahman’s gift for alchemizing outside influences until they are totally Tamil, totally Rahman”,[102] and his initial global success is attributed to the South Asian diaspora. Music producer Ron Fair considers Rahman “one of the world’s great living composers in any medium”

    • Somu

      I am music lover, then a composers. Be a music lover. Still in 2015 u guys are comparing, grow up. Enjoy music whoever composes. AR or Raja both are legends.

  • Siva Prasad

    Auna neevena is the only song works for me ! A disappointing album from the guru Ilayaraja ! I strongly believe that Keeravani would have done a better job for this movie in particular. I had the same feeling when I heard Raja sir’s songs for Shiridi Sai .

    It’s a failure on the director’s part in failing to inspire the maestro to compose great music.

    • kiran

      Shiridi Sai is by Keeravani, not Raja. Raja’s “Sri Shiridi Sai Mahatyam” is a classic, and Keeravani’s version wasn’t a patch on original. I am glad director went with Raja and not Keeravani, for Rudramadevi.

      • Siva Prasad

        My bad 🙁

Sponsored links

March 2015
M T W T F S S
« Feb   Apr »
 1
2345678
9101112131415
16171819202122
23242526272829
3031  

Like Milliblog? Help spread the word!

Get reviews by email