Wednesday December 29, 2010
Posted by Karthik
Before I add it under any category in ItwoFS, let me not add ANY context and merely post this here.
What do you think? Let me know…in the comments.
Hat tip: Vaibhav Vishal
Hahaha.. Sheila ki jawani.. Karthik I donno what to say.. same situation like you..:)
very good find.. 🙂 worth an entry i feel, for the sheila motif and the tune similarity at that point.. but V-S have customized it quite a bit removing the modern talking stamp totally from it..
Yeah, the Sheila part sounds synonymous and the stating bit, may be. Does it warrant an entry, am not sure – if AR/IR’s minuscule similarities can get a look in…
Kartik, i hear the similarity too, but all i can do i state here and now, in public, that i’d never heard this song in my life until i just heard it here! it’s absolutely bizarre!! and uncanny! there’s no doubt that the “her name is sheila” line is similar, but that’s it, and that line is a bit too simple for us to have to steal. Wow. I wanna reiterate that we’ve never stolen a melody, and will never do so. As to whether or not this becomes our first listing, i leave that to you. But i sincerely hope it doesn’t. i’ll be shattered.
Yes, my intuition says, it’s not intentional…. Vishal is honest…
I agree with you Vishal! Who steals from Modern Talking anyways! 😉 (I know there are instances, but they (Modern Talking) are just too passe now!)
@Vishal the line “My name is Sheila Ki jawaani” was given by Shirish, right?
this is where all gets awkward. I don’t know why people are defending themselves, if they know that they haven’t made mistake or have gone wrong. What difference does it make if karthik goes on and list it. I mean nothing. Here is a person who is listing down what he feels as a inspiration taken from somewhere.. Yes, it maybe harmful for the reputation you have built as music composers, but for how long??? And we need to see that this is his personal observation, and we need to respect whatever he writes/states in his blog. If i were in Vishal’s position, i would have only made a comment, if i know that it was truly an inspiration, else i would give it a wry smile and move forward. there are lot of other things to do than to whine.
Vish – Shek – I am inclined to give u the benefit of doubt – all coz of the great other songs ( not promoted – Happy endings is my fave.) from TMK – also – coz this was the strangest case of plagiarism I have ever seen – if u wanted to steal u wud/ve changed Sheila to Leela or whatever – u guys rock……
awwwww…you didnt get shattered when you were ripping off Sean Paul for Golmaal?
standard reply…..jst by having a bald head and oozing fake attitude dont help man…U R A CHOR….to be very frank….CHOR…CHOR and CHOR…u can take heart btw bcz all of them are chors…..hah hah hahahhhahahahah chor kahin ka….!!!!!
gud one bald head…CHOR CHOR>>>>call d police…
True true..agrreeed 🙂
Kartik, there’s just a hint of similarity which can be overlooked. I believe Vishal. Look at their track record, I don’t think they would do such a thing. One of the very few or probably the only ‘original’ composers that we have. You can give it a benefit of doubt. Putting it up in the plagiarism section is being too harsh.
I am willing to give you a pass on Sheila, but dude the Golmaal number is obviously heavily inspired by Sean Pal’s, ‘Temperature’. Anyways, I don’t want to blame just you. In fact, most of the composers, present day and old ones have been lifting tunes from other sources. The likes of RD Burman and Bhappi Lahiri were the trend setters in this regard, and the modern composer’s followed their brief. I hope one day you guys give us a classic like, ‘Man Tarpat Hari Darshan’.
just played the song to shekhar. he’s in shock too. utterly speechless, don’t know what to say. and the bizarre coincidence that it uses the same word, is just too freaky!
Having heard “Sheila Ki Jawani”, at least twice-thrice everyday since the last month, I feel the similarity exists only in the word “Sheila” and there also tempo and pitch are different. (In fact I believe if one of the two songs had used a different word, we may not even be discussing the similarity)
Apart from that, the melodies are absolutely different and I can not detect any similarity. I feel it should go into the “Coincidences” category on itwofs.(The word “Sheila” does make it a freaky coincidence though!)
This is too close to be a coincidence. Should be definitely added as an inspiration. And your bias towards their music is already very much evident for me, with your overrating of their mediocre music. Not adding this as an inspiration will prove my stand.
Yeah, this is mere coincidence and the sun rises in the west. Believe it everyone because Mr. Dadlani says so!
Nice try! But, I’d perhaps tend to trust a man’s word over a mild similarity – I rate human conscience very high. Overrating…mediocre…are all words that describe your bias as much as mine – mine, for their music and yours, against – remember, a bias works both ways. I’m yet to decide on adding it in ItwoFS though. Will need to decide soon – perhaps tomorrow.
I am not trying to prove anything. I believe you’re biased towards VS’s music and you believe I am biased against their brand of music. Fair Enough. But thats beside the point. The point is, what stops you from listing this obvious inspiration and seek out other’s opinions. Did you do the same for other cases? Would you’ve done the same if the composer in question is Pritam or Srikanth Deva. Did you consider the conscience of Rahman when you listed the Osibisa Kelele – Gentleman’s Parkaathey case? What stops you from listing this particular inspiration?
Who said anything’s even stopping me? I’m not here to decide whether someone lifted a tune or not – I’m simply here to list instances of similarities that may be conscious or unconscious plagiarism. In the process, I may perhaps add context based on previous cases of plagiarism, based on the amount of similarity in the given example or previous ones.
The point on conscience is not meant to deter anybody from thinking on anybody’s side – it was merely a personal observation. Just to add, I still haven’t added this instance on ItwoFS – this addition was merely to gauge others’ feelings – I have done this in the past, at least on Twitter, if you haven’t noticed.
Well, you said you’re still not sure of adding it which means you’re in a dilemma? I see no reason for the confusion and this is a must add based on history of itwofs listings with other cases. I felt this probably unconscious inspiration angle is making you think twice before adding it. But how would you know whether it’s conscious or unconscious. I do not know whether it is conscious or unconscious. And you’ve listed all similar inspiration cases without analyzing the conscious inspiration angle.
If you checked other’s opinions on other obvious inspirations similar to this one before listing it in itwofs, fair enough. I didn’t know.
And I apologize if my comments were too caustic and hurt anyone in the process.
Nope – not dilemma-based delay; sorry if I gave that outlook. I’m clear what to do with this – just didn’t get the time to do the usual – song clip edits and updates. ItwoFS is not a blog that I can add entries easily like in Milliblog, it’s a hand-coded website (gasp…I know!). Working on it now…
Fair Enough. A case of mis comprehension on my part. Amends.
By the way Mr. Karthik, did you seek the opinion on other composers before listing their plagiarized work & inspiration in your site. Poor guys got listed like Interpol Criminals in your site. And you have not spared even legends like Ilaiyaraaja, Rahman, Pancham etc..
Why suddenly the doubt in adding this to your list. I am sure all others would’ve said the same thing as Mr. Dadlani here, expressing their shock.
ROTFL!!!! Why do you even assume that my asking this question here is aimed at Vishal or Shekhar? It was meant at this site’s readers – and to think I haven’t added a word about any Hindi track. I wanted to see how many people connect a Hindi track with the Modern Talking number. The more people that do, the more weight there is, to the alleged inspiration.
Incidentally, people like Rahman and many new composers are online and may be active too, on social networks. They need to choose to react to updates on ItwoFS or Milliblog – it’s a choice, you know.
Quote: “Incidentally, people like Rahman and many new composers are online and may be active too, on social networks. They need to choose to react to updates on ItwoFS or Milliblog – it’s a choice, you know.”
Weird you say that. So you’re saying you’ll reconsider or rethink about the cases you’ve already listed if a composer in question reacts to a particular allegation of inspiration. What kind of reaction do you expect?
And what about the allegations on people like Ilaiyaraaja, who is not active online or Late Pancham?
Again, nope – that’s an assumption you’re making, I believe. Read this with another comment of mine, to you.
Quote: “I’m not here to decide whether someone lifted a tune or not – I’m simply here to list instances of similarities that may be conscious or unconscious plagiarism. In the process, I may perhaps add context based on previous cases of plagiarism, based on the amount of similarity in the given example or previous ones.”
Composers adding reactions is incidental. I’m addressing this point as well, in my latest update on ItwoFS.
Hmm. Your statement that Composers like Rahman needs to choose to react to your allegations provoked my curiosity to know the kind of reaction you expect from them.
Anyway I’ll stop eating your webspace right here.
I agree the writer is biased. Anybody who’s followed VS over the years even a weeeee bit and has the slightest knowledge of some intl music will know what a blatant lie vishal’s ‘we’ve never stolen a melody, and will never do so’ is. The golmaal anthem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UkZ0aRa2T4) was composed by V-S. Have you heard Sean Paul’s ‘Temperature’ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW2MmuA1nI4) ? That’s just for a start. If you want a list of atleast 10 tunes by then that i GUARANTEE are lifted, hit me up.
Anybody who’s followed VS over the years even a weeeee bit and has the slightest knowledge of some intl music will know what a blatant lie vishal’s ‘we’ve never stolen a melody, and will never do so’ is. The golmaal anthem (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…) was composed by V-S. Have you heard Sean Paul’s ‘Temperature’ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v…) ? Seriously, his ‘ :O ‘ kinda response above is either bullshit, or he has no clue where his engineers are flicking tunes from. ciao. .
My question is why didn’t you seek other’s opinions on some of the other obvious inspirations. I am not saying that you’re considering Vishal’s word on this case. If you say you’re seeking opinions because this doesn’t sound like an obvious inspiration to you, I quit. And I hope to get better answers from you than ROTFL.
dude, speaking of Vishal Shekhar, HERE’S WHAT I FOUND !!! The track from Break Ke baad called Adhoore bears strange remote resemblence to a song called Spitshine by a US Art Rock band…….check both the songs… Adhoore – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqYKdKJ1ttQ
Spitshine – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za6jBjwRb6M
It has the same vibe in the verse and also soem part of the instrumentation…maybe its just a weird coincidence tht am thinking, maybe its not connected at all, but still have a listen and lemme know ur views……, just listen closely to the song……
@Vishal the line “My name is Sheila Ki jawaani” was given by Shirish, right?
speaking of Vishal Shekhar, HERE’S WHAT I FOUND !!! The track from Break Ke baad called Adhoore bears strange remote resemblence to a song called Spitshine by a US Art Rock band…….check both the songs… Adhoore – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqYKdKJ1ttQ
It has the same vibe in the verse and also soem part of the instrumentation…maybe its just a weird coincidence tht am thinking, maybe its connected at all, but still have a listen ppl and lemme know ur views……, just listen closely to the song……
Referring to the ItwoFS entry, Karthik. WHERE exactly in the Modern Talking song do you hear the words “Her name is Sheila”? Since this was one half of the reason you decided to put the entry up anyway, I had to bring this to light. It’s “Sweet Little Sheila”. You couldn’t have possibly missed that? This leaves just that itty-bitty tune and the name. Is it still enough for you to leave the entry on?
Apologies – that’s a typo – just noticed, thanks to your comment. I meant it as the song’s title and instead typed something else. Will change it asap.
The name similarity PLUS part of the hook is what I was alluding to and why it features in ItwoFS – itty bitty or otherwise.
Hey Karthik, is there any chance of going back on your itwofs entry for Sheila? Please please please do consider…. In this article Vishal says: “To be honest, the brief was simple: Farah wanted to use the phrase Sheila ki jawaani in the song.” There aren’t many more words to add to make a hook line that will make sense with the rest of the song…
Sorry, didn’t mean to post twice 🙂
vishal & shekhar cnt even think abt lifting a tune , itz completelly diff , vishal shekhar rocks
You also have some positive bias for shankar mahadevan / ehsan loy! The song from don – aaj ki raat is a lift of from Donna summer number – I feel love – i had sent the music clippings also to prove the point – But strangely it never finds mention! Any one who has heard donna summer in the 80s would recognize the blatant similarity instantaneously!
Karthik with due respect, i must say you have positive bias for shankar ehsan loy! Remember the song “aaj ki raat” from Don? A blatant copy of the Donna summer number – I feel love! I had sent the music clips by email twice to bring to your notice, some how it failed to find mention in your website!
Nice catch, but I think I have enough space to seek recourse in the fact that the backgrounds is what seems similar and the lead tune is completely different. Even the backgrounds are reminiscent of music from Donna’s era and not something that can be completely nailed as ‘blatant’.
hi i am out of station will respond on return
If it wasn’t for you, I would have always thought ‘I feel Love’ was a Blue Man’s Group song. 🙂
Its just the beat dude…..and you would find this beat in many of the 80s disco songs … no ? @milliblog:disqus and the point is , it isnt even that similar 😐
Karthik , looking at the entries in the “Coincidences” listing at itwofs, I feel it deserves to be there. I personally don’t see any evidence of MUSICAL plagiarism by any stretch of one’s imagination, even if we assume that the word “Sheila” was ‘borrowed’ from the track in question. As a fair comparison, consider for instance the signature ‘O o o…’ sequence in the “Mera Dil Tere Liye” song from “Aashiqui” , which appears to have been taken from “You’re the voice” and I find it unlikely to be a mere “coincidence”, especially considering Nadeem-Shravan’s “shady track record”. One could draw similar inferences with some other items on the list, Rahman’s “Tara Rum Pum”‘s resemblance to the “Tequila song” being one of them. That is just my personal opinion.
Anyways, LOVE your blog, and appreciate all the effort. Keep up the good work !
I wonder if you ever got my e-mail about Adhoore (Break Ke Baad) and Jive talkin’ (Bee Gees), sent in November.
that’s great – what did you think about it (and the other one, I mentioned)? Please let me know. Thanks.
You are so right!! The song is actually quite similar to Adhoore! The opening portions i mean.
This is so similar man ! They have literally lifted the mukhda !
all of u r a success bcz india is such an underdeveloped cntry trying to be a superpowr….ur songs in mayawati and sheila dixt land whr u can rape anybody anytime will alwys be a big hit dude….try to find d shame ….go man go….CHOR CHOR……..
Relax folks. It is a her basic movement on blues scale. Any coincidence is just that. Use of same name Sheila is indeed bizarre. Anyway I am with vishal on this..thanks vishal for nicely fitting blues, reggae and rock in hfm.
@some people—i dont think vishal-sekhar LIFTS songs…as far as TEMperature is concerned,yeah i agree that the ARRANGEMENT is same…and i’m quite sure there’s a huge difference between Melody line and Arrangments…I think the arranger is to blame here if he had copied that.On the other hand i do feel that there’s not much harm if the arrangement is similar 😛
VISHAL-SHEKHAR/ rocks 🙂
Aww.. only the “sweet little sheila” part (and prob next line after that) sounds like “my name is sheila”… both go in different directions from then on. Anyway, I don’t think anyone would take a vital word along with the tune, if they are indeed plagiarising.
The prelude and the first few sentences of the song `The Runner (1979)’ by The Three Degrees directly suggest the opening of `Sheila ki jawani’.
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